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  • hi

    I see that You were editing article about Darth Maul recently...See,I have made some changes there too but they just concerned grammar issues

    I hope You didnt change anything in grammatical sense,did You?

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  • Hey, some of the admins (me included) are planning on renaming the CM category: [1]. Feel free to share your thoughts.

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Flurious is a Complete Monster and AustainDR has agreed with me 

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  • Hello Jayden,

    I have created a mod for The Witcher 3 called Gwent Plus Plus that will add new cards to the game including a Vilgefortz card. Can I have your permission to use this image of yours in my mod? I will credit you as the artist in my credits section.

    Thank you,

    Taylor

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • Hello there.

    It appears that we have a disagreement about the "Complete Monster" category on Queen Bavmorda's page. Which by the way, led the page to be locked, and not by me. Please allow me to explain why she is not.

    I do agree that she is repulsive, vile, and irredeemable. However, as I did explain, this is not enough. For, yes she did want to kill Sorsha after her betrayal, thus somehow negating her affection towards her, but 1) In a way, one can say that she wants to erase the one who betrayed her, meaning that she feels sore about it, a Complete Monster would not care. 2) The mere fact that she did care for her, however slightly proves that she is able of affection. Hence not a Complete Monster.

    Read the thread on LucidPigeons ' admin page, the "complete" stands for something after all. Think of it as a matter of scale. The Complete Monster are LOWER than irredimable, there is crossing the Moral Event Horizon, and there is being so far beyond that even the other crossers are disturbed. Even the other villains are disturbed by a Complete Monster. Even the heroes able to see the best in the worst scum feel nothing but scorn towards one.

    Allow me to provide some examples:

    In Dragon Ball, Zarbon and Dodoria are irredimable scum, who gleefully kill and torture, even children or their minions, but even they are visibly disturbed by the destruction of planet Vegeta, while Frieza is cackling maniacally.

    In Black Cat, there are the villains, casual murderers, there is Creed, egomaniacal psycho, and there is Doctor, the only one that the heroes, fully willing to sympathise with the other villains, absolutely loathe.

    In Dragon Quest: Dai no Daiboken, Vearn, who plans to obliterate the overworld and revels in being evil, notes that Kill Vearn is worse than even him.

    In Fullmetal Alchemist, the first anime, even Envy and Pride, horrible as they are, are disturbed when Dante turns Gluttony into a mindless beast. And in the manga, Edward pities Pride, who is arguably the worst among the Homunculi, and ends up sparing him. But Father is the ONLY one whom Edward is willing to kill. Not only does he destroys him but he spends the villain's final moment telling him basically "serves you right, your victims are at peace at last, now begone". One can argue that Father cares for Hohenheim, the Elrics and his "children", but this is absolutely self-serving. He values them as long as they are useful and destroys them without second thought when they are not. He did not care for Pride, who was dying for enabling his goal. And yes, he did grant power and immortality to Hohenheim, but he could not do otherwise, for to be in the center of the circle, Hohenheim who was carrying his flask had to be as well.

    Hope you see my point.

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    • Sorry to interfere into the conversation, but I have a question : If Bavmorda is not a Complete Monster, why do TV Tropes consider her as one ? (Especially since they have higher standards than this wiki, for example they don't consider Hopper or Lockdown as CM.)

      I agree that she seems to have a bit of affection towards her daughter, but is that enough to disqualify her ? Voldemort has affection towards Nagini, he is still a CM. Bellatrix Lestrange has affection (not to say love) towards him, she is still a CM. Johan Liebert has affection towards his sister and Tenma, he is still a CM. Slade has affection (or at least respect) towards Robin, he is still a CM. And there are many other examples.

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    • TV Tropes does not consider her as a Complete Monster, she is listed as such in the "Your Mileage May Vary", which means that some may think so but not all. And remember the number one rule, we are not TV Tropes. Sure they are a priceless fount of intel on characters and how to make them, but we have different ways of judging.

      Lord Voldemort only cares for Nagini as an extension of himself. She is what she wants everyone else around him to be: Blindly devoted, existing only for him, sharing the exact same depravity. If she was not one of his Horcrux, his care for her would be the same as his care for his Death Eaters, "I like having you around, but stop pleasing me/disappoint me in any way and you're an epitaph." JK Rowling has stated that all her characters are redeemable, except Voldemort. She went out of her way to portray him as as atrocious as possible and did a damn fine job.

      As disgusting as Bella is, she is no Complete Monster. Her love for Voldemort, while horribly twisted and unhealthy, is genuine and she has real affection for her sister.

      Johann is a complicated case. He wants to break Tenma and his sister to make them sink as he has sunk, to prove that goodness is a fluke. Their relationship is far too twisted.

      I don't know about Slade. Does TV Tropes label him a CM? If his respect for Robin is genuine, I'd say he does not count. Plus, wasn't he willing to work with him against Trigon? I do not watch the show

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    • Personally, I don't consider Slade as a CM. He clearly has respect for Robin, he became an anti-hero during Season 4 when he helped the Teen Titans to defeat Trigon (and even saved their life in the process), and he also chose to spare the Titans' life during the final of Season 1.

      I don't consider Johann as a CM either, despite his horrible actions. He refuses to kill his sister or Tenma, and the fact that he is willing to let them kill him can be interpreted as he feels remorse and/or wants to be stopped before he causes more death.

      Concerning Voldemort, as I recall, it is said that Nagini is the only thing that he genuinely care about other than himself, even before he made her an Horcrux.

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    • By the way, every Complete Monster in TV Tropes are listed in the "Your Mileage May Vary", since it's a subjective trope (is there only one CM that everybody can agree on ?).

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    • A FANDOM user
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  • What was the full name of Belial? I had forgotten it.

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  • I was just wondering how he isn't a CM. He's definitely heinous enough and as far as I can tell he has no redeeming qualities.

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    • A FANDOM user
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